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| 我与格桑旺姆（Kershin Brummenbaum）摄于2012年11月 |
2008年，我第一次来达兰萨拉时，住在她的楼上，与她相识，并被她的宁静、谦逊与优雅所吸引。她尊重、热爱周围的一切人，她的身上，也散发着西藏文化的熏香，于是，这次来达兰萨拉，我对她进行了采访。原为英文采访，我大致翻译如下：
朱瑞：您作为阿尼（尼师、尼姑）有多少年了？
格桑：21年。
朱瑞：这个世界，有许多宗教，像基督教，伊斯兰教，以及其他的宗教，那么，为什么您选择了西藏佛教？
格 桑：这是个很难回答的问题。我很年轻的时候，信仰过基督教。我就出生在一个基督教的家庭，不过，只信仰了一段时间，后来就不再喜欢了，因为，我的很多疑 问，基督教都不能解答。后来，我了解阅读了佛教，并来到达兰萨拉，开始选学一些佛学课程和教学，我真正地喜欢西藏佛教，她解开了我的许多疑虑、许多问 题......是的，佛教能够解答我的问题，这是我皈佛教的基本理由。我更加幸福，不是吗？她带给我更多的幸福，这是一种很有效的修行，她是一个体系，非 常有效地通过一些问题，帮助我们提升精神。从个人的角度说，佛教是非常适合我的。
朱瑞：具体地说，通过修行，您的生活有了哪些不同？
格 桑：好处吗，可以肯定地说，我更快乐、更幸福了。面对生活，我感到更容易满足，还有，错误的感觉也越来越少了。你知道，过去，我是很容易生气的，且贪心， 有过多的要求，现在，我体验到这些东西在减少，因此，在这个意义上，我对我的生活感到满意。我不后悔，我觉得我做出了正确的选择，这是最重要的。 不仅在开始的时候，即使现在，我仍然觉得这是一个非常有效的对精神的认知途径，带给我很多的幸福，但它确实是一条艰难的路，对我来说，还有很多学业尚待完 成。
朱瑞：您的佛学课程是否与科学有联系？
格桑：其实，我学习的是传统的西藏佛教体系，与科学没有直接联 系。但是，我认为与心理学有着联系，我强烈地感到了这一点。是的，很多方面都与西方的心理学相似。还有，许多方面也与物理学等等有联系。虽然我们学习的这 个体系，是传统的西藏佛教，不包括那些科学，但是，在一定意义上，有相似之处。所以，对我个人来说，我是很感兴趣的。当我自己学习和研究的时候，我喜欢画 平行线，对比佛学与科学的相似之处。
当我读高中的时候，例如，学习科学之后，我会在互联网上或者书中，画平行线，找寻和比较其相似 之处。所以，对我个人来说，尤其在佛学与心理学之间，我在学习中，常试着比较，因为在高中时，我就有这个比较的兴趣。另外，在达兰萨拉辩经院，有时，一些 科学家也来这里讲座，我都参加了。
朱瑞：什么样的讲座？
格桑：有一个物理学家，他们来辨经院，教授我的三位 老师：贡嘉措、贡却旺多和贡多巴桑。因为他们想学习科学和一些与科学相关的知识。那时，我作为翻译，也听了那位科学家的讲座，是有关物理学和生物学的讲 座，是关于原子或更小的颗粒的基本原理，我记得，那些科学家的讲座，差不多进行了好几个星期。后来，又有一次，来了一位心理学家，在山上，对一些禅定的 人，进行测试，看他们的反应。我也得以参加，并为他们翻译，所以，那段时间，我能够获得一些关于禅定的更深层的益处。
朱瑞： 那么，禅定究竟是怎样使大脑得到改变的？
格 桑：我不是科学家。但是，像他们说的，他们进行测试，让那些人用电脑工作，结果是，那些人的反应更快，或者以另一种方式，更容易集中、专注。他们还做了一 些其他的测试，但我不知道确切的结果。不过，我在互联网上进行了跟踪搜索，比如，在“精神和生命的会议”中，他们对一些僧人，进行了测试，其 中，Mathew Ricard，他是一位非常著名的法国出家人，他做了大量的禅定修习，在他沉浸于慈悲的禅定的时候，检查他的脑波，发现此时大脑的那些部分是激活的。
朱瑞：那么，在禅定之前又是什么状态呢？
格桑：之前和之后？我认为，如果你感兴趣的话，可以在网络上找得到，找到科学家们做这种实验的资料 。
朱瑞：对西藏佛教超越科学方面，您是怎样看的？
格 桑：嗯，事实上，真正地超越了现代科学。因为，心性的光明现，在方面，科学家还没有探索出一切。我的意思是，还有一些科学家，我不认为对于精神世界有太多 的认知。但是，西藏佛教，却对精神有很多深奥的解释，非常细致入微。这方面，我认为科学家始终落后一些。他们常常集中在眼睛所能看得见的事物，当然，精 神，你看不见，你只能看得见精神的结果，即大脑的反应。所以，我认为，在这方面，佛教走在了前面。
因为过去的佛教大师，已经开发了观察精神和意识的能力，而科学家并不了解这些。所以，我认为佛教，对精神的各个层面，都理解得更精深，尤其是在死亡的瞬间，心识会发生什么。
朱瑞：这么多的步骤？
格桑：没错，这些步骤，我认为在这个意义上说，超越了科学，我想是可以这样说的。但是，科学家们更精密地掌握了细微的粒子、原子等，并为之提供了非常细致的解释。不过，我认为，最为重要地，佛教大师们，写下了对于精神的更深层次的认知。
朱瑞：非常感谢，太好了。
原英文如下：
R: How many years have you been a nun?
K: 21 years.
R: In this world there are Christianity, Islam, and so many other religions. Why did you choose to follow Tibetan Buddhism?
K: Difficult question. First, I was Christian. I was born Christian and I practised it a little bit when I was younger. Then I didn’t like Christianity anymore. Many of my questions weren’t answered by Christianity. Then I heard about Buddhism. First I read a little bit about it . Then, when I came to Dharamsala, I started taking some courses and did some teaching. I really liked it becouse it answered many of my questions. So, I had many doubts and many questions ... so, Buddhism was able to answer those questions. That’s basically the main reason I’m practising it . It just makes one happier, right? It brings me more happiness and it ‘s a very effective practice I think , a very effective path. It’s a system that effectively helps to improve the mind and work through problems . For me it is very suitable, personally. Buddhism is very suitable.
R: Specifically, how has your life been improved by practicing Buddhism?
K: Well, the benefits, - I ‘m definitely happier. I feel more happy and more satisfied with my own life. And I think , also, I have fewer delusions. You know , before I was more angry, more greedy, more longing, felt more attachment - so I experience a little bit less of those. So in this sense, I feel happy with my life. I have no regrets. And I feel I’ve found the right choice . So this is really the main thing . But it is really a difficult path. Of course there’s a lot of work still to be done. So not only at the very beginning , but even now, I find it ‘s a very effective spiritual system. It gives me a lot of happiness.
R: How are your Buddhst courses related to science?
K: Actually, what I’ve been studying is not directly related to science, because it’s the traditional Tibetan Buddhist system. However, I think it is related to psychology I feel very strongly that it is related to . well, western psychology there are a lot of similarities. In some way also to western physics and so forth, but the system that we studied is traditionally tibetan buddhism and so it doesn’t content an elements of such, but I think there are similarities in a sense. But officially the course study it doesn’t actually contain those clements. So, privately I am interested personally .
when I do my study and reseach, I like to draw the parallels to see the similarities. So what I studied in high school, for example,the science I studied then some I cheek the internet or I read books and I like to kind of drew the parallels and see where the similarities and comparisons occur. So on a private level I try to do some comparative studies with especially psychology , because in high school that ‘s one of the major subjects that I studied. And so there ‘s a private interest that I have. But at the IBD, sometims some scientists come and they give lectures. So, in the past, I ‘ve attended those lectures.
R: What kind of lectures?
K: There was one physicist who came and taught three of my teachers. Ging gatsal, Gunjuwando, and Gingdupessah, any way , they wanted to learn seience and so I translated at the time. So I could listen to what the scientiest said and it was about physics and about biology. It was sort of basic things about atoms, about smaller particles and so forth. I remember that went on for quite a few weeks with the scientists teaching them and then , other times, a psychiatrist comes. There was one psychiatrist he came in and did some tests on some of the meditative in the mountains to test their reaction and I was able to join them and translate for them so at that time I was able to receive some insights into the benefits of meditation.
R: How does the brain change offer medition?
K: I ‘ m not a scientist. so , like they said they had these tests, you know they let them do things on the computer like a reaction they reacted quicker or in a different way they were better concentrated. They also did some other tests, but I ‘m not exactly sure of the results. However, I followed some of those reaerches on the internet . For example, “The mind and life conference ” where they did some tests on some monk called Mathew Ricard. He’s a very famous French monk and he did a lot of meditation and they cheeked his brain waves when he was meditating on compassion and how parts of his brain were active.
R: That was before?
K: Before and after? I think if you are interested, it ‘s probably available on the internet, like scientists, you can get a free on the internet about scientists doing these tests on the brain.
R: What are your thoughts about Tibetan buddhism having knowledge beyond science?
K: Well, actually really beyond modern sciences because light now scientists havent explored everything . I mean there is still scientists, I don’t think they know much about the mind. So Tibetan Buddhism there is a lot of very sophisticated explanation very detailed ,very subtle. Explanation of the mind. Where scientists, I think they are still a little behind because I think scientists they usually concentrate on what you can see with your eyes. So, of course, the mind, you can’t see, you can see brain reaction as a result of the mind. So I think Buddhism goes beyond in that field because some of the Buddhist masters of the past, they have developed abilities to see levels of mind and levels of consciousness that scientiests wouldn’t be aware of . So I think Buddhism with respect to the mind is more sophisticated has a much better understanding of the different levels of mind, especially when dying what happens to the mind, how it absorbs...
R: Those steps, those many steps?
K: Exactly, those steps I think in this sense it’s beyond science I think you could say that. But then scientists know more about subtle particles, atoms neurons protons nucleus you know all these very detailed explanations. But I think most importantly, the buddhist masters who wrote all those books have a great understanding of the mind.
R: Thank you so much that was great.
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